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11 Facts to Know From the Oral Evidence Given by Sylvia Lim & Jamus Lim

2021-12-15 , 10:59 am

Just two days after Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh and Minister for Culture, Community, and Youth Edwin Tong had their verbal joust in a hearing before the Committee of Privileges (COP), the committee released yet another report detailing the oral evidence of another Worker’s Party (WP) Leader—party chair Sylvia Lim.

Master debater Jamus Lim was also called to give testimony, and as always, he never stopped smiling.

Given that their interviews lasted a total of four hours, not many would have the time to watch the entire thing, especially with all the scrolling through Instagram we have to do.

Fret not, for Goody Feed is here.

Here are 11 key points from both of the Lims’ hearings before the COP, starting with the more seasoned politician:

Ms Lim First Learned About Ms Khan’s Lie During the 8 Aug Meeting

During the hearing, Ms Lim claimed that she only learnt that former MP Raeesah Khan had lied in parliament in a meeting on 8 Aug—five days after Ms Khan related the false anecdote about accompanying a sexual assault victim to the police station.

Ms Lim said party chief Mr Singh had arranged the meeting, and that when she arrived at his house—before vice chair Mr Faisal Manap and Ms Khan arrived—Mr Singh informed her that Ms Khan had earlier admitted that her 3 Aug anecdote was untrue.

Ms Lim Said WP Leaders Were Concerned With Ms Khan’s Wellbeing

When Ms Khan presented her account of events before the COP, she claimed that it was during the 8 Aug meeting that the three WP leaders—Mr Singh, Ms Lim, and Mr Manap—told her to take her lie “to the grave”.

But Mr Lim claimed that the three leaders were concerned about Ms Khan’s wellbeing instead, as she had just revealed she was a sexual assault survivor and was emotional.

This corroborates what Mr Manap and Mr Singh said before the COP.

You watch a summary of Mr Manap’s oral evidence here:

You also watch the summary of Mr Singh’s oral evidence here:

At First, Ms Lim Did Not Ask Ms Khan to Correct Her Lie

After the revelation, Ms Lim said that as an experienced politician, she appreciated
that Ms Khan’s lie in Parliament was a “serious and grave matter that had to be addressed.”

However, she did not think about how and when it should be addressed, nor speak to Ms Khan about making a clarification.

To Ms Lim’s mind, it was important that Ms Khan speak with her parents first, which is something Mr Singh said as well.

Moreover she did not recall any conversation between Mr Singh, Mr Faisal and herself on 8 Aug (without Ms Khan present) concerning Ms Khan’s lie in Parliament, or the next steps that needed to be taken.

Ms Lim also disagreed with Ms Khan’s evidence that she was told to take her lie to the grave. And when asked if she could rule out if any of Ms Khan’s mental conditions—including dissociation, as mentioned by Mr Singh—may have caused Ms Khan to make this statement, Ms Lim said she couldn’t rule it out.

She Left it to Mr Singh to Follow Up on the Matter, & Did not Speak to Khan Until 4 Oct

After the 8 Aug meeting, all the way to the Parliamentary sitting on 4 Oct, Ms Lim said she hadn’t spoken to Ms Khan about the matter.

She explained that because Mr Singh knew Ms Khan best, and was guiding her, she left it to
Mr Singh to follow up on this matter with Ms Khan.

Ms Lim believed Mr Singh knew she was leaving him to handle the matter, though nothing was explicitly expressed between them in terms of a specific timeframe.

Ms Lim said she was not aware of a meeting between Ms Khan and Mr Singh on 3 Oct, the day before Ms Khan repeated her lie in Parliament.

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Ms Lim Revealed Some Notes She Took During WP’s Disciplinary Panel Interview With Ms Khan

During her hearing, Ms Lim provided some notes she took during WP’s disciplinary panel interview with Ms Khan on 29 Nov:

PS: Before Oct session, I met you + I told you it was your call. Did need to tell the truth in Parl occur to you?
RK: Yes but consumed with guilt + own experience. Thought it wouldn’t come up.
PS: Can’t lie right?
RK: Yes.

Ms Lim said that based on this exchange, she would not have believed that Mr Singh
would have given Ms Khan a choice to lie, if the matter arose again.

She added that could not “fathom” the possibility that Mr Singh would have given Ms Khan the choice between telling the truth and lying again.

This is why…

Ms Lim Said She Was Very Frustrated When Ms Khan Repeated Her Lie

Ms Lim said she was very frustrated when Ms Khan repeated her lie in Parliament, during an exchange with Law & Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam.

She was frustrated because it did not appear that there had been any progress made, to move Ms Khan towards correcting the Parliamentary record. Instead, through Ms Khan’s exchange with Minister Shanmugam, there had been a “doubling down” on the untruth, making the situation even worse.

Though she didn’t know exactly what was said between Mr Singh and Ms Khan, she
would not have believed that Mr Singh would have given Ms Khan a choice to lie, if the matter arose again.

Ms Lim Met Ms Khan After She Repeated the Lie, But Didn’t Ask Her Why

After the exchange with Minister Shanmugam, Ms Lim arranged to meet with Ms Khan in the Leader of Opposition’s (LO) office.

This was the first time, Ms Lim said, that she spoke with anyone concerning the lie Ms Khan told in Parliament.

Ms Lim said that she arranged this meeting for two reasons:

To ascertain Ms Khan’s emotional state after the exchange in Parliament
For Ms Khan to respond in Parliament as Parliament is the proper body to handle it and to suggest that Ms Khan get legal advice on any potential request by the police for assistance

At no point during this meeting did Ms Lim ask Ms Khan why she had repeated the lie, or what she discussed with Mr Singh, because she did not think the WP chief would have asked her to “double down” on the lie.

While Ms Lim agreed that a clarification was an urgent matter, she did not think it could be done in a Parliamentary sitting the next day (5 Oct) because time was needed to carefully structure Ms Khan’s clarification and to make sure Ms Khan was comfortable with it.

Ms Lim & Mr Singh Met Khan Twice After That, & Instructed Ms Khan to Make the Clarification

Later that day (4 Oct) at around 11:15pm, both Mr Singh and Ms Lim met with Ms Khan in the LO’s office.

During this meeting, Mr Singh asked Ms Khan what she planned to do next, and Ms Khan replied that perhaps there was another path—honesty.

These are roughly the same words that Mr Singh used when describing this meeting in his testimony before the COP.

Neither leader asked Ms Khan whether she had spoken to her parents about the matter, nor did they have any separate discussions that day.

It was only on 12 Oct when the three of them met again, this time at Mr Singh’s house.

According to Ms Lim, Ms Khan was initially reluctant to come clean and admit to lying.

She said that both she and Mr Singh were angry and told Ms Khan to make the correction, saying that she had no choice but to come clean at the next available Parliament
sitting, which was in November.

Ms Khan eventually agreed that this would be the best thing to do, Ms Lim said.

As for the police’s request to interview Ms Khan, Ms Lim told Ms Khan that it
was alright not to respond since she was going to be making a clarification in Parliament. This supports Ms Khan’s claim that she was told not to respond to the police.

As we all know, it was on 1 Nov that Ms Khan came clean in Parliament.

The WP’s DP also verified that Ms Khan had attended sessions held by a women’s survivor group in 2018 and 2019.

Jamus Lim Said He First Became Aware of the Lie on 29 Oct, During a CEC Meeting

Next to take the hot set was Associate Professor Jamus Lim, who, like many other WP members, learnt very late on that Ms Khan had lied.

In fact, it was only on 29 Oct during an extraordinary meeting called by the CEC that he and other members were informed of Ms Khan’s lie.

Prof Lim confirmed that prior to this meeting, he was not aware that Ms Khan had uttered untruths in parliament.

Some WP Members Thought the Reference to Sexual Assault Could Sound Like an Excuse

According to Prof Lim, some WP members at the CEC meeting felt that the reference to Ms Khan being a sexual assault victim could sound like an excuse.

But Prof Lim said he felt it was important for her to state this.

Prof Lim Had No Idea That Ms Khan Had Earlier Confessed to Mr Singh

Prof Lim said he was not aware that Ms Khan had earlier confessed to Mr Singh that her anecdote in Parliament was untrue, nor that she had met Mr Singh, Ms Lim, and Mr Manap on 8 Aug.

Apart from what he was told at the 29 Oct meeting, Prof Lim generally learnt of the facts concerning this matter only when they became public, he said.

If you have four hours to spare and want more details of their exchanges, you can watch the hearings in their entirety here.